OOC Chatter

[Suzume Senseki]

I've made this comment before, but I think even the normal "damage" caused by attacks shouldn't be interpreted as actual "damage". The book itself indicates this, as only criticals are actual "hits".

Aesthetically for duels, and duels to first strike, you could imagine either people trying to hit and weaving/ dodging, or something exactly like Motsuki said - "feinting' or "trying to find an angle" of sorts... Which leads characters to move around and stare at each other, tiring themselves mentally (strife) and physically (fatigue). An actual HIT, or even an actual STRIKE, only happens if a critical happens.

Earth blocking crits is manageable either with repeated hits, or with predict - in water stance, you can hit AND predict even. So I don't think that's a problem?

Again, I like 4e a lot (although not so much it's Diels), and I see why the bidding part is a problem in PbP, but O think some of the problems pointed out Here are like.... Part of what the system is supposed to be like, and thus more a matter of taste than "problems"?

Anyway!

[Kuni Yasu]

Running con this weekend. Thanks to this being a very weird year, I got busier earlier than expected. I may or may not get a post in around the edges.

We hope to see you for the big finale, Yasu. Hope all is well.

Well enough. The usual putting out fires and nowhere near enough sleep. I'll have enough brain to post Tuesday. Maybe Monday night if feeling inspired. Apologies to my partners in dead threads.

[Suzume Senseki]

Well enough. The usual putting out fires and nowhere near enough sleep. I'll have enough brain to post Tuesday. Maybe Monday night if feeling inspired. Apologies to my partners in dead threads.

*Hugs* Hopefully no horrible fires and no overly crazy folks, especially of the 'no mask' type. Keep safe : )

[Usogawa Emiko]

Aesthetically for duels, and duels to first strike, you could imagine either people trying to hit and weaving/ dodging, or something exactly like Motsuki said - "feinting' or "trying to find an angle" of sorts... Which leads characters to move around and stare at each other, tiring themselves mentally (strife) and physically (fatigue). An actual HIT, or even an actual STRIKE, only happens if a critical happens.

That is like...the absolute opposite of what duels are supposed to be. Two people staring down, then a draw of the blades and one person landing a strike. Weaving, dodging, feinting...none of this matches duelling as it has been.

I know FFG have rewrote a lot of things, but rewriting duels to basically be a skirmish is really awful.

[Shiba Raizo]

Aesthetically for duels, and duels to first strike, you could imagine either people trying to hit and weaving/ dodging, or something exactly like Motsuki said - "feinting' or "trying to find an angle" of sorts... Which leads characters to move around and stare at each other, tiring themselves mentally (strife) and physically (fatigue). An actual HIT, or even an actual STRIKE, only happens if a critical happens.

That is like...the absolute opposite of what duels are supposed to be. Two people staring down, then a draw of the blades and one person landing a strike. Weaving, dodging, feinting...none of this matches duelling as it has been.

I know FFG have rewrote a lot of things, but rewriting duels to basically be a skirmish is really awful.

QFT.

In most of the lore to date, dodging during a duel has been basically unthinkable.

In the 5E rules as written, you cannot even stoically take a strike unless you have a void point to burn- even though literally every iaijutsu duel in the lore basically involvies zero dodging.

For a one one one fight? Sure, whatever, I'll chalk some of this up to new system blues. But for duels which have been presented a certain way- a way which FFG's own fictions don't really contradict?- it's pretty much rubbish.

Especially since Fatigue is "dodging/evading/whatever- because if taken that way, neither duelist in the Raizo/Murato duel actually hit the other guy.

[Moto Mitsuki]

in water stance, you can hit AND predict even

Actually, you can't since Predict is treated as a Scheme and Attack action (likely exactly to prevent a Strike/Predict turn)

Especially since Fatigue is "dodging/evading/whatever- because if taken that way, neither duelist in the Raizo/Murato duel actually hit the other guy.

Indeed, strictly by the rules, it's akin to Raizo conceding because he knew he was about to faint from the pressure.

[Shiba Raizo]

Indeed, strictly by the rules, it's akin to Raizo conceding because he knew he was about to faint from the pressure.

Which means my Seasoned Bishamon-Blessed Earth 3, Water 3 Soldier-duty guy is completely tuckered out after evading two swings with a bokken.

[Kitsu Murato]

Indeed, strictly by the rules, it's akin to Raizo conceding because he knew he was about to faint from the pressure.

Which means my Seasoned Bishamon-Blessed Earth 3, Water 3 Soldier-duty guy is completely tuckered out after evading two swings with a bokken.

Yeah. It makes no sense. With that kind of description suggested by a duel, samurai should be passing out from walking to court.

[Moto Mitsuki]

If you want a bit more madness for the road:

In a check, you first take strife, then assign opportunities, then check your success total (Core, page 28). That's why you can use one Water opportunity to immediately heal two strife you took from the roll.

Some opportunities have delayed, conditional effects like "If you succeed" (shorthand for "after resolving the check, if you succeeded") which add a bit of confusion, but what opportunities will be used for is still programmed at the same step, between strife and success.


Now, the rules for the Finishing Blow very explicitly states that a Finishing Blow is triggered immediately when a character becomes compromised, even if they have enough opportunities to cancel out the strife at the next step. And also that a Finishing Blow can interrupt another Finishing Blow.

So. An example.

Two duelists, Airy and Fiery, are facing each other. The duel has been long, they're both at their exact composure limit (or close enough).

It's Fiery's turn. They choose to go all in, switch to Fire stance, and Strike at their opponent who's, you've guessed it, is in Air stance.

Since Airy is at TN3 from stance, Fiery has no choice but to keep strife to succeed. The roll is otherwise very good (4 success, 2 opportunities, 3 strife = 3 extra bonus success from stance).

However, at the instant they've finished selecting their dice (explosions included), they take strife, becomes Compromised, and Airy gets a Finishing Blow.

Bad luck for them, they also cannot hit their target without taking dice with strife. So they do so, and, angry, decide to keep as much bonus success as possible. Let's say 3.

And then Fiery immediately gets to trigger a Finishing Blow too. Yes, in the middle of their own roll.

However, hitting a TN3 while compromised is very hard (~10% chance on a Ring 3/Skill 2 roll), so they miss.

We then return to Airy's Finishing Blow. They inflict a critical strike with severity 9 (2*3+3). Being compromised, Fiery doesn't manage to reduce it below 7 and their arm now bends at a wrong angle (disadvantage Maimed Arm). Though they're lucky to not have actually lost it entirely. Also, they're bleeding.

But wait? Remember the original attack? Because it's time to see it completed.

Fiery spends the 2 opportunities to trigger a critical strike "if they succeed". The strike finally resolves, inflicting way enough fatigue (3+2+1+3=9) to Airy to incapacitate them, then a critical strike of Deadliness 3 resolves. Nothing as dangerous as before, but since Airy is incapacitated, it will send them to sleep in all cases.

Round end. Jury must know tally up points to decide who's the better duelist between the one lying unconscious on the ground (technically, becoming Unconscious does not force the Prone status, but come on) and the one with a bloody arm.

Both achieved their objective: +6/+6
First (successful) strike: +3/+0
Fatigue inflicted: +0/+9
Best critical strike (after reduction): +8/+2

Total: 17 on both sides.

Score Difference 0 -> No Winner: The duel is a draw, as the fighters land telling blows simultaneously. The characters might repeat the duel or retire to tend to wounds.

While I won't blame the jury for not taking a side, I don't think the duelist whose arm will never work the same again will be happy with this result.

[Kitsu Murato]

That is so overly complicated.